Early puberty full transcript

KATY: Hi. 

ALLISON BEHRINGER: Hey. Thanks for doing this.

KATY: No, of course. This is hilarious. I've literally told people about it in adulthood and they've just been like, you guys did what?

ALLISON: Wait, so what do you tell people? What do you remember about it?

KATY: So, I remember coming to lunch and I think that maybe I was a few minutes later than most people, and so when I walk up to the lunch table, all the girls are talking like, “Oh, are you a dot or a comma? Are you a dot or a comma?” and I didn't understand it completely, because everyone was just speaking in code. And Allison, you knew, so you were like, “Katy, you're a dot. Katy, you sit on this side of the lunch table.” And I was like, “Okay I'm a dot? I dunno what that means.”

ALLISON: When my friends and I were in seventh grade, we created this weird sort of game. At lunch time, in the cafeteria, we would divide ourselves into the commas and the dots. The dots sat on one side of the table, the commas on the other. My friend Katy was a dot, while I was still a comma.

KATY: Before long, realized that we were talking about periods and that if you were a dot, you had had your period already, and if you were a comma, you hadn't had yours yet. So we literally split our lunch crew up one side of the table, based on whether you were a dot or a comma. You had your period, or you hadn't yet. And do you remember that if you had your period just once you were a semicolon?

ALLISON: Oh my God, I totally forgot about that.

Over spring break of my 7th grade year, when I was 13, I became a dot. I remember my mom declaring me a woman, and then that Monday, walking into the cafeteria, and taking my place with Katy on the dot side of the table.

In the years since, over the last two decades, there’s been a big change in this country: puberty is starting younger than ever, especially estrogen-dominant puberty. And according to reports from pediatricians, the pandemic seems to have exacerbated this trend. 

Today, three girls and one teenager share their experiences. Their ages range from 10 to 18, they’re all cisgender, are from different racial backgrounds, and live in cities and suburbs across the country. Some of them have chosen to go by a pseudonym. And they all started going through puberty extra early.

Some of the first signs of estrogen-dominant puberty are breast buds, pubic hair, and body odor. And today, more and more kids who are assigned female at birth are experiencing these changes younger and younger. When I was a kid, the average age for these first signs of puberty was about 11. But now, according to the most recent data, girls on average start showing these signs shortly before the age of 10. For Hispanic girls, the average age is closer to 9, for Black girls, just under 9 years old.

There are a lot of theories about why puberty is starting younger. Some doctors and researchers believe that it’s the chemicals in our water – some act as endocrine disruptors and mess with hormones. Others think it’s related to diet and the hormones in our food. Others believe that chronic stress is a major factor. 

Research shows that as a result of systemic racism, Black and Hispanic communities in the U.S. have more more exposure to environmental toxins, less access to healthy food and more chronic stress – all factors that contribute to why Black and Hispanic girls get their periods younger than other races.

This trend of puberty starting earlier has some doctors and parents worried. According to studies, girls who go through puberty early have a higher risk of depression and anxiety. And here’s the thing: because the average age is trending younger and younger, this means that the girls who experience puberty first, before their peers, are now younger than ever before – with the first signs starting as young as 6 or 7 years old.

There are some medications available that can essentially pause puberty for a few years, which just adds another layer of complexity to this whole thing. With so many layers and unanswered questions, for today’s show, we wanted to talk directly with kids. And ask – how does it feel to be a girl going through this extra early puberty? And in a society that already sexualizes girls, what are the impacts for girls whose bodies are “maturing” earlier and earlier? 

From KCRW, this is Bodies. I’m Allison Behringer. 

ISABELLA: I guess I would describe myself as quote, unquote cool and powerful. But not like, powerful in the way, like I wanna rule the world. Just not scared to act.

I'm Isabella and I'm 10 years old. I'm in fifth grade.

ALLISON: Do you feel like your brain is kind of similar to the other kids your age? 

ISABELLA: No, I have really crazy ideas. 

Allison: Like what? 

ISABELLA: Well, once I stepped into the toilet, and once I touched my poop, and once I tie-dyed some old scraps of fabric, stuff like that.

P-U-B-E-R-T-Y, okay. I need to face – I need to say it. Puberty. I think puberty is your body growing and changing into like, more quote unquote advanced. That feels good sometimes but sometimes it's sad. There was a lot of shutting myself in the bathroom and crying. There was a lot of looking in the mirror at my boobs. 

Sometimes I just wish my dad could pick me up again. Like, he still can, but his back, you know. 

Well, sometimes I would be walking in the house and then, I would see a picture of myself when I was younger. And then I would look down at my body and say, “Oh man, I changed.” And then part of me was like, “Wow.” Another part was like, “Mmm!” [frustrated]

Sometimes, well, it's hard to accept change sometimes.

Once I was in, first – I was young. So, we were in P.E, and we were changing into our jogathon shirts, and all the girls went to the bathroom to change, and I'm like, I looked at the line, and I looked at how much fun the boys were having and I literally just stayed with all of the boys and just changed and I took off my shirt and I swung it around with my best friend. And then our teacher literally called us out.

She said, “Look guys, I know you guys are having fun but let's put on our shirts now.”

I wouldn't do that now. Because now, my body changed a lot. And it'll make them feel uncomfortable and then they'll laugh at me and then I’ll feel uncomfortable and I don't want that. Not for me. Not for them. 

Boys are allowed to walk around the streets without a shirt. I bet if I walked around without a shirt on the street, everybody would stare at me. I don't think it's okay. I think it should be all or none.

ALLISON: So, your mom told me a little bit about going to the doctor. Are you okay to share some stuff about going to the doctor for going through puberty early?

ISABELLA: So we went to the doctor, I forgot what it's called, and they just tell me, “Your bones are two years older than you.” And I’m like “How's that possible?” Like, was I just pure bones in a pile in my mom's stomach and then I started forming?

ALLISON: And why did your parents take you to the doctor?

ISABELLA: Um, because I'm an early bird. I don't know why. Why, mom? 

JULIA: You were going through all these changes. You were nine, and the changes were happening faster and faster. 

ISABELLA: Oh, it was too early, right? 

JULIA: The changes were happening fast, so we talked to your pediatrician and we decided that it could be good to consult with an endocrinologist that specializes in children and ask her if there was any problem with developing so fast or, you know, understanding that everyone has their own rhythm, but just wanting to make sure that you were healthy. And like you were saying, you know, like sometimes growing up is a lot.

So we were wondering, is there anything that is safe that we can do to help you to slow it down a little bit? So we went and consulted with a specialist. She took a blood sample and then an X-ray of your hand. And with those studies, they can define how all your bones are, and she said that your bones were two years older than you, and I also didn't understand what that means. 

ISABELLA: I don't know. My mind was just stuck on, “What the heck?” They told me that I could take an injection every how many days?

JULIA: Every three months. 

ISABELLA: Every three months. And by then, I was crying, 

ALLISON: Aww, why?

ISABELLA: Because I don't wanna do that. I think there's another solution, and maybe I don't need a solution. So we didn't do it. 

ALLISON: How do you feel about that decision, Isabella? 

ISABELLA: So good. I died from relief.

I wanted to see if I was like the quote unquote only person changing early. My friend and I were hanging around and then suddenly my face just deepened, and I asked her, “Do you have any pubic hair?” And then she looks both ways and she leans in and whispers, “Yes, I do. Do you?” And I say, “Yes.”

And then we were laughing. I felt relieved because I knew that I wasn't the only one in the class with pubic hair.

I used to feel like, “Bring on the big boobs.” They look cute, man. And I like the boob part, I guess. But I'm like, “Back away from me, period. Not yet, period.” Like, come on, God. Why periods? What for? 

ALLISON: We’ll be right back, after these messages.

STORY: Hello. My name is Story Jean Brown. I am 12 years old. I’m a pre-teen, going to be 13 next year, and I'm in sixth grade. My mother named me Story because she was a writer and when she had me, I looked like a wonderful story. And that's also why I'm a writer. I like to write fantasy, love the romantic and I've tried to add a little comedy

I'm working on The Unique Boy. It's about a boy who has white hair, that lives in the orphanage. People bully him all the time. But he has a best friend, and a future girlfriend, and they go on adventure and I'll give you a little spoiler. They have a kiss at the end.

Puberty is something you develop as you get older. And sometimes boys get mustaches and girls have their periods and involves having a deep voice range. And I don't have a deep voice range yet. I can still do hundreds of voices. I can make a granny voice and, uh, accents. I can make accents. And, wait, do you wanna hear them?

ALLISON: I would love to.

STORY: Okay. Uh, *in granny voice* Back in the olden days, Granny – we had to do hard work and pull wagons. That's the best I can do for now.

ALLISON: That's amazing. I love it. Do you do those voices with friends or do you mostly just do it by yourself or with your family?

STORY: I usually do it by myself. Because usually, by 12 or 11, kids my age like to do older  things. Girls like to do the nails and make bracelets. It sounds fun, but I still like doing my toys. So I do voices with my toys all the time.

STORY: And I don't like my period because the period is the worst puberty thing I can think of. I got my period in fourth grade. I was in my bedroom doing virtual learning. I felt weird, a warm feeling down my body, and I needed to go to the bathroom. 

And when I was getting up, then I saw blood! Usually people scream, but I didn't scream. I screamed in my head. Instead, I had wide eyes and huge shock. Then I just washed my hands and I called for mommy. Then she came to the living room. Then I told her I got my period. 

I was upset when I got my period at 10 because I was really hoping to get it at least 13 or 14, but I got it at 10.

Allison: Do you feel like going through puberty means that you should become an adult? Or that puberty's another part of being a kid. Do you have an opinion on that? 

STORY: Mmm… I say you have to grow up eventually, just maybe not at a young age because kids deserve to be kids still. But halfly, the kids get to be kids and halfly, you have to grow up at some point. 

You know how, you notice kids like when they're younger, they look like stick form, a little? Well, I start noticing curves and I didn't like having curves. I wanted to be stick figure, but then I had bigger breasts as I got older as well. 

And I don't remember the exact reason I liked wearing leggings when I was a kid, but as I got older, I noticed that it's fairly tight now and very uncomfortable, and it felt just weird. So that made me self-conscious and I didn't want to wear them because basically, I just felt nervous to be around people wearing that anymore. So I just asked Mommy if we could wear something else.

Shame is like sadness. It's like, this is the definition of evil, but it's kind of the same thing when you fall into the dark side. And like you hear dark things and bad things about you. Sometimes I feel that when I’m really sad. 

RACHEL: So my name is Rachel and I'm 11 years old. 

ALLISON: What grade are you in? 

RACHEL: Sixth grade. I have a dog. Her name is Squeaks. She's a chihuahua mixed with something, and she's like black and brown, and her favorite color is purple. I feel like I'm creative. At school I had this coding class, so we were working on coding and yeah, I started to notice it when I was like six. I thought that not many people have pubic hair and breasts this early. 

When I was six, I went to an activities camp, so we were swimming and then when we got out of the pool, there weren't any stalls left in the bathroom, so we had to change near our lockers.

And my friend, she noticed I had pubic hair, she was like, “Oh, no fair. You have pubic hair and I don't. you're lucky.” And I'm like, “Oh, thanks.” And yeah, I felt kind of special because I thought I was the only one who had pubic hair and breasts that young.

But I stopped swimming because, well, most of the kids at my camp, they didn't have armpit hair, and I felt embarrassed cuz everyone would be like, “Ugh, you have armpit hair. That’s disgusting.” 

It was hard to feel different from the other girls because back then, I thought they were like perfect. They just had a perfect body. So I didn't want anyone body-shaming me. 

Whenever I walk the dog and I see some old man walk by, they're always staring at me, in some sort of way, and I get really scared, but I feel like they don't wanna come up to me because they're scared of my dog.

So I was getting glasses and someone was coming in the glasses store and the person looked me up and down, and he was like, “You look really pretty, miss.” And I was like, “Thank you.” And I just walked away. And it made me feel really uncomfortable. Because I don't know him. He was really old. I just felt really scared. I thought something was gonna happen to me. 

And usually when I walk down the street, I always think something bad is gonna happen to me ‘cuz I see people staring at me and it's you know, scary.

ALLISON: Yeah.

ZOE: I first started getting catcalled probably as early as 5th grade. I could always tell when someone was looking at my chest. You become very hyper aware of who’s watching you.

Hi, I'm Zoe. I'm 18 years old and I'm a senior in high school. I write on my school newspaper. I'm one of the co-editor-in-chiefs and I really spend a lot of time with my friends and spend a lot of time outdoors.

Looking back on it through photos, it looks like I started kind of developing breasts more in like fourth, third grade, and I think getting my period in fifth grade felt like a pretty big deal because I was kind of the first that anyone had had their period in my grade. I have an older sister, so growing up felt pretty cool.

But I didn't really understand what that came along with at the time. I also think because I developed a chest earlier than a lot of people, I piqued a lot of boys’ interest. It felt scary because everyone’s heard the stories of what can happen when someone's creepy towards you sexually. 

But it also felt sometimes a little bit validating, because I think as a girl who can feel insecure, getting any sort of attention in a warped way, sometimes feels positive. That attention felt exciting and I almost wanted to feel grown up and to feel cool and to feel hot.

I think it's a really, really thorny topic because to undo kind of the way that it feels positive is to undo like an entire system of how we view women, which happens at a young age to like what is flattering. That feeling is like super deeply rooted in you to take it as a compliment. At least I have found that it has been deeply rooted in me. 

I definitely felt like more was expected from me sexually because of the way that I looked. By the time that I did start being romantic with boys, which was earlier than some of my peers, there was a lot of emotional confusion around what I was comfortable with, because I couldn't tell what I felt like I should be doing versus what I really wanted to do. I used to get really emotional, whenever I was doing something sexual because I felt a sense of shame. 

And I don't think that's abnormal, but it felt like some of that shame came from whatever kind of dirty feeling I got from looking so old, so young and getting kind of that negative attention, like cat-calling. I saw myself as a kid, but sometimes other people didn't. And that was like a really confusing feeling and it made me feel really lonely and really sad.

And a lot of it for me manifested in middle school through dress codes and who got dress coded and who didn't.

Dress coded is when you wear something to school that you're not allowed to wear, which means it's like you need to change your shirt or you need to put on a jacket or you can't wear that again. 

And I got dress coded a lot in middle school for a bra strap showing. But I was one of the only people who needed a bra. So I would have friends who would wear tank tops and it would be no big deal.

I remember one time it was like, I had PE and I had been wearing a shirt and the shoulder had fallen off because we were playing dodgeball, and I had this female teacher be like, “You need to put on a sweatshirt, I can see a bra strap.” And I was like, I was just trying to participate in this sport that everyone is participating in, and it feels shameful to be called out like you're doing something wrong. Like, why are young bodies something that should be sexualized? Like if you hadn't said, “That's sexual, to have your bra strap out,” I never would've thought it.  

ALLISON: How would you describe your relationship with your sexuality now?

ZOE: I would say that it took me getting into a more serious, long relationship to feel super comfortable with it. Just being in a relationship that was really centered around love first and foremost, and that it's not some sort of performance and it's not some costume that I'm putting on that doesn't feel right. 

And I'm also 18 years old now, so, if I want to feel like a sexual being, well, I can, cause I'm 18, like I'm grown up. I think the older that you get, the more comfortable you feel in your skin and the more positive experiences you have sexually, the more affirmed it is to me at least, that this is something that is supposed to be fun and supposed to be good. 

And I think when your first few experiences aren't positive, that it's really hard to mend that relationship. And so, I think just the fact that I started having these consistently positive experiences really helped heal that.

ALLISON: Is there anything else that you think is important to include that I haven’t asked you about?

ZOE: Just like the disclaimer that I don't have any of this really figured out, totally. 

I think it's like an emotionally tricky thing, but that it's also sometimes okay to give yourself some room to figure it out without constantly putting pressure on yourself to get it right. It's okay just to try to be a kid sometimes and not really worry about it.

ISABELLA: I feel mostly good about being an early bird because, sometimes it feels good to change. Sometimes I get tired of how things look, and that's why I cut my hair, now it’s super short before it was to my waist even longer than that. I grabbed some toenail clippers and well, they were like nail scissors. I cut off right in the middle of my forehead and chopped off my own hair to make some bangs. 

I just want to tell people that I know it's hard and I get it, but if I can push through it, then we all can. 

That was awkward. That was weird. I'm not the mushy type of person. 

ALLISON: Early puberty – even puberty in general – it’s a hard time! And in the United States, your neighborhood, your class, your race, your gender, all determine the quality of your care.  

When Rachel, the third girl you heard from, was getting pubic hair at 7 years old, her mom, Sylvia, took her to the doctor. Sylvia said that the doctor told her it was quote unquote, normal,  for Black girls to go through puberty early. Sylvia felt like her concerns were dismissed when she was seeking answers and information. She was never presented with options, like the medication that can temporarily pause puberty. 

And meanwhile, lawmakers in some states are banning this same puberty-pausing medication, but only when it’s used as gender affirming care for trans teens. That’s despite the fact that the overwhelming majority of medical evidence suggests that, for young people who experience gender dysphoria, this reversible intervention can be lifesaving.

In the face of all of this, there are things that can make puberty at any stage easier on kids.

Sociologists, educators, and doctors all told us that one thing that makes a huge difference is talking to kids about puberty, and they had some tips for how to do it. 

Kids freak out when the adults freak out. So the more comfortable you can be talking about puberty, the more comfortable they will feel. And always treat kids like the age they actually are, not the age they appear to be. 

And finally, sharing stories from your own experience with puberty can help normalize things and be a great place to start.

ISABELLA: What was your reaction when you got a period?

JULIA: I cried. 

ISABELLA: And you locked yourself in your room.. 

JULIA: And locked myself in my room. 

ISABELLA: And then? 

JULIA: I cried some more and then I felt like I was using a diaper because the pads back then, they were so thick and big and uncomfortable. None of my friends had their period. I was the only one. I was the only one with boobs. 

ISABELLA: With what?

JULIA: Boobs. 

ISABELLA: Oh, boobs. I thought you said poops. 

JULIA: Nah.  

ISABELLA: Heheh. Poops. 

JULIA: So it felt very lonely. Kind of like what you described. Felt lonely. But I didn't talk to my friends. That's a big difference. 

ISABELLA: I don't – sometimes it doesn't feel good talking to my friends about it. 

JULIA: No it doesn’t?

ISABELLA: Sometimes. Sometimes it makes me just – yeah. 

JULIA: Yeah? 

ISABELLA: Mm-hmm. Uncomfortable. 

JULIA: Yeah. Puberty kind of does that. So many changes. What do you think will make this time of your life easier? 

ISABELLA: Mmm, more hugs and support.

ALLISON: Thank you to everyone who shared their story on today’s episode. And thank you to the parents for being a part of it too. If you want to get tips about how to talk to your kids about puberty or find more information about early puberty, go to KCRW.com/Bodies. As always, you’ll also find a transcript of this episode and a link to the Bodies facebook group, where you can share your own story and find support for whatever you’re going through. You can follow Bodies on Twitter and instagram at @bodiespodcast. And if you like Bodies, tell a friend about this show, send ‘em a text right now!

This episode was reported and produced by me, Allison Behringer and Lila Hassan. Our story editor is Mira Burt-Wintonick. Additional story editing and advising by Cassius Adair and Sharon Mashihi. Original score by Hannis Brown. Mixing by Nick Lampone. Theme music and credit music by Dara Hirsch. Transcription help from Nisha Venkat. Special thanks to Rebecca Mooney, Camila Kerwin, KalaLea, Caitlin Pierce and Kristen Lepore. Episode art by Neka King. Cover art by Sarah Bachman. Bodies is supported and distributed by KCRW. Our executive producer at KCRW is Gina Delvac. Thank you to the whole KCRW team. I’m Allison Behringer, host and executive producer of Bodies. Thanks for listening. See you next week.

ISABELLA: Beep. Okay. Okay. 

ISABELLA: Thank you. Stop. Stop recording. Stop recording. You can stop recording. 

JULIA: Okay, okay! Okay.