This podcast is no longer purely civil in nature

We know that allies of Rudy Giuliani have been pushing for former President Trump to pay his legal fees or to pay him so he can pay his legal fees. But there’s another urgent ask that The Daily Beast reports Trump has demurring on: “a strong verbal or written statement saying Giuliani’s work during the Trump-Ukraine saga was done on behalf of then-President Trump—and therefore not part of an illegal foreign lobbying effort.”

Josh and Ken agree this would be inadvisable for Trump if he wants to avoid legal exposure, so does that mean he’s being a good client?

New York Attorney General Tish James says her prob eof the Trump Organization is “no longer purely civil” and that she’s work on a criminal inquiry with the Manhattan DA. So...what does that mean? Plus: Proud Boys, insanity defenses, how not to talk about your clients and more.